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Poster: patkelleyPA Date: Dec 17, 2008 8:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Best copy of one of the most-reviewed shows

This is partly in response to the "Samba In the Rain" discussion below, where a number of people trashed the 90s and used that Samba as their example.

I thought that was a horrible rendition of that tune, but I point out this recording of Three Rivers '95.
http://www.archive.org/details/gd1995-06-30.schoeps.jones.wklitz.95193.flac1648
This is the best recording of one of the most reviewed shows on the archive. You can actually hear the bass, and there is good instrument separation.

The broader point is that this is a great show, and if you never thought so, you should listen to this recording. Even though they had more bad days toward the end than toward the beginning (that '94 show with Samba is a bad show), they could still rock it out right up to the end.

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Poster: littledirewolfy Date: Dec 17, 2008 8:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Best copy of one of the most-reviewed shows

Nice try Pat.
People love to hate the nineties Dead.
They seem to be totally offended that anyone could get any
pleasure from listening.
If you had 'any musical sense' you wouldn't go near this stuff. lol

I've heard this show before and I'm listening to some of it again now.
The SOTM is very nice. Bucket was good. West LA Fadeaway moves right along.

Take Me To The River is certainly not one of my favorite covers that they did.
That one kind of threw me, but I wouldn't wish for the person, Bobby?, who
wanted to do it, to be shot. Seems a bit extreme.

Maybe people should start a movement to get everything past a certain date
removed from The Archive. Get LL and the other sites to ban the stuff.
Have tape burnings across the country.
Get some computer geeks together and you can probably track down everyone who's downloaded the stuff.

This post was modified by littledirewolfy on 2008-12-18 04:12:28

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Poster: William Tell Date: Dec 18, 2008 8:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Best copy of one of the most-reviewed shows

Yeah, that was really sad on my part...in all seriousness, though, I had not ever listened (at least as far as I know) to a complete song from the 90s. Trying this one, I really did have to force myself to overcome what can only be described as a pathological aversion to it; the minute Bob sings, or whatever, I get twitchy based as much on my preconceptions as the reality of the sound. That said, I think I can objectively say that the sound is different enough from my early era tunes that there is no hope for me to move forward era wise (and I can hardly get into the early 70s!).

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Dec 18, 2008 9:18am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Tell Mea Culpa

WT. Despite the fact that as Prime Minister you must act the Solomon to preserve your diplomatic standing, this passive mea culpa is rather unbecoming and well, disturbing. While I myself have given in to the 70's, I'll not use the guilty but mentally incapacitated defense for having an aversion to much of the 80's and nearly all of the 90's.

I'll give subjective logic a draw every time it's confronted. Some folks like the vibe that started late 80's and it's pretty well documented on "Without a Net" and "Dylan and the Dead." I don't think it out of place to say the overall vibe carried, for the most part, until the end. I even find the Marsalis version of EOTW on Without a Net to be a favorite. The vibe I prefer is probably 71-76 with a nod to 77 from a quality standpoint alone.

But this is ALL subjective.

What is indefensible are shows that musically are not right. Never mind Garcia's grandpappy voice or Weir's spoken word vocals, if they're off key, it's bad. If Mickey and Billy can't hold up their end of the tempo, it's bad. If Garcia's playing is dragging a half step behind the rest of the band, it's bad music.

All of these "bad" things are objective criticisms, and in the world of music they should be considered fact. For those that were at these shows and enjoyed them, that's all the better, but purely from a musical standpoint they don't stand up well.





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Poster: William Tell Date: Dec 18, 2008 11:52am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Tell Mea Culpa

Better said than I could much less did. I just don't know enough music theory to be confident when I am right and when I am just biased (e.g., I have though at times Donna was singing "in key" or "right" only to be laughed at by musically knowledgeable sorts, that had no axe to grind on the Donna front [used Row Jimmy examples of 73]).

On the vocals front, I have always thought it's a slam dunk (they decline rapidly after 71; Bob starts "talking" plainly on some tunes in 73), but others have told me that if you like Bob Dylan, and you like Tom Waits, then when you hear Garcia for the first time in 90, you can like him too, which sounds too subjective to me...

Oh well, we've covered this so often I suppose the others are bored out of their minds, but at least I can say, "see, as I have aged here at the Forum, I have been inconsistent in my posting position" in all manners large and small...

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Dec 17, 2008 1:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Best copy of one of the most-reviewed shows

Cacophonous, rumbling junkyard of dissonant sounds coming from the cellar. Not enough pot in Pittsburgh to lively up that rag.

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Poster: patkelleyPA Date: Dec 17, 2008 2:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Best copy of one of the most-reviewed shows

I bet $1000 you didn't even listen to more than 10 seconds of it. If you did and you think it's junk, you better turn in your card.

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Poster: clashcity Date: Dec 17, 2008 3:01pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Best copy of one of the most-reviewed shows

And if you actually listened to this show you'd realize how horrible it is.

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Dec 17, 2008 3:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Best copy of one of the most-reviewed shows

"He was missing so many notes. His energy was going down and down and he was moving further and further away, becoming more and more remote as he was losing his facility. He didn't want to look me straight in the eye anymore."

Mickey Hart on Garcia, 1995 Tour.

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Poster: tree-ap Date: Dec 18, 2008 5:12am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Best copy of one of the most-reviewed shows

This was my last GD show. My "review" of the show includes the no-marijuana issue, though that did change inside the venue. Had only a little bit of greeness on the ride up there & looked in vain throughout the lots surrounding the stadium before going into see Rusted Root play. After their set I went for some way-over-priced stadium "food" & on my way back to my seat ground-scored about a 1/4oz of some FINE weed---unbelievable! I made sure I turned on many of the folks sitting near me---I had to share the wealth.
I liked the show & with hearing tapes afterward it seemed to stand up on it's own, though I know others will heartily disagree on the shows merits. The rain that started just before 2nd set lead to all of the rain inspired tunes---and IT DID start to rain REALLY HARD as they started into "RAIN"---GD magic at it's best.
In retrospect, this entire day was full of little omens, that had I been more observant I might have "known" this would be my last show.

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Poster: augustwest1958 Date: Dec 18, 2008 5:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Best copy of one of the most-reviewed shows

The 3 Rivers show was pretty weak. I think there were good shows in the 90's, just not as consistently.

This was my last show also, and I did something that I'll always regret. We stood on the field for the 1st set, but decided to go up high for 2nd set. Figured the sound would be o.k. and we were tired of standing. The rain comes just before 2nd set, and I wished like hel that I was standing on the field getting drenched during the rain tunes. I'm still haunted by missing what would have been a really neat last show.

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Poster: clashcity Date: Dec 17, 2008 10:22am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Best copy of one of the most-reviewed shows

Yea, but with all that is available there is no reason to resort to listening to anything from 92-95 with any regularity, save some very specific moments.

Would you seriously choose to listen to this when you could be melting your mind to a great Fall '72 board, or anything up until 82 for that matter.

Its only my opinion and everyone else has theirs, and if you enjoy it more power to you, but there's not much that compels me to offend my ears in such a way.

I went back and listened to the shows I was at in summer 94. Awful.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Dec 17, 2008 4:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Best copy of one of the most-reviewed shows

Apology accepted.

My bad.

Got out of control there...

This post was modified by William Tell on 2008-12-18 00:56:28

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Dec 18, 2008 8:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Best copy of one of the most-reviewed shows

I've listened to some of this show- at all, but certainly more than 10 seconds - and I'm afraid I cannot agree with you. We all have our different biases and ratings systems, and to me this is nothing "great" about this show in any sense of the word. A strong showing relative to the era, perhaps, but nothing I would ever reach for again with so many other shows and eras to choose from.

I have no problem pleading guilty to being an unapologetic, unreformed 90s basher- in the 13 years since Garcia's death I have periodically given in to suggestions to give such and such a show a "fair" listen with "open" ears and that this will surely change my mind and it just hasn't happened. They're not all awful, but if I had to list my Top 50 shows for a desert island, nothing from after late 1990 would make the list.

HOWEVER, if you get joy out of these shows, more power to you (seriously). Just because I don't dig them doesn't mean they have any more or less value than some of the musty old stuff that I like. After all, I get to hear from my wife all the time just how "awful" my beloved 1970 Capitol Theater audience shows are....lol

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Poster: patkelleyPA Date: Dec 18, 2008 10:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Best copy of one of the most-reviewed shows

Terrapin and SOTM from this show are great, no matter what period you like. But I don't necessarily mean to be the champion of 90s GD music. My favorite period is the mid 80s, but I find lots of good and great shows from the 90s.

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Dec 18, 2008 1:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Best copy of one of the most-reviewed shows

"Terrapin and SOTM from this show are great, no matter what period you like"

...unless you don't happen to think SOTM is a great Dead song to begin with, which I don't. And two great songs don't necessarily translate into a truly great show.

You can insist all you want to that it's a great show but like everything else with this band there's never going to be a consensus...I'm glad you dig this show. Enjoy it. But to my ears its nothing special.

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Poster: patkelleyPA Date: Dec 18, 2008 1:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Best copy of one of the most-reviewed shows

I wasnt really trying to persuade anyone about anything. I posted it as a response to all the "everything after 1989 is unlistenable" people. I agree with many assessments of 90s shows, but I pointed this one out as an exception. And I'm not writing this as a nasty response to you in any way. We all like different periods of the music, and I love that about the GD.

But you don't like SOTM?!?

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Dec 18, 2008 6:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Best copy of one of the most-reviewed shows

I don't think SOTM is awful or anything, I just don't think it's anything special. It's just sort of....okay.

For me, a lot of the material the band introduced in the 80s and 90s is like that- not horrible by any means, even pretty good on occasion, but nothing timeless. I really think the band's songwriting wells dried up around 1977 or so (Terrapin, Estimated, Fire...maybe into 78 with Shakedown).

Interestingly, I attended my first show in 1983 and used to love the material from that era, but now that I'm fairly familiar with many shows from all eras I find the Mydland era songs just don't do all that much for me anymore. Still listen to some 80s shows, though.

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Poster: user unknown Date: Dec 17, 2008 9:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Best copy of one of the most-reviewed shows

This may be the best '95 show I have heard...though I'll admit to not hearing many.

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